Reading and writing.

[foxmonkey]

So...if you write fic, do you read it as well?

I'm asking because I read a comment in a community where the poster (a writer) said that she rarely reads other people's fic unless it's recommended. This just boggles the hell out of me. I get the theory (bad!fic abounds!) but...well, I just can't wrap my brain around it.

Maybe I'm just a Philistine who'll read anything that's put in her path. ;-) Well, not everything, I do have standards, but, yeah. I don't need a rec to read. Hmmm. Just wondering if this is more common than not.

Comments

[jewelianna.livejournal.com]

I've gotten so that my major criteria for reading are a pairing that I like, a story that's more than a scene or two long, and a writing style that doesn't send me running within the first two paragraphs. But yes, I read much, much MORE than I write.

Not that I've written much lately...

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

But yes, I read much, much MORE than I write.

Same here! Like I said, I just can't wrap my brain around that. I love fandom and I love reading the two go hand in hand for me.

I don't read everything because I have pairings I love and pairings that just make my skin crawl. I always wished I could read Timbertrick because there were some *awesome* people writing it, but honestly, I just can't go there. Same with SGA -- I know I'm missing a ton of great stuff because I don't read McKay/Sheppard. But to limit myself any further just seems like madness. :-)

Thanks for responding, woman!

[jewelianna.livejournal.com]

I'll read anything in popslash, but in media-based fandoms, I'm much more selective. There are a few select couples I'll read, but most of them don't interest me at all.

[madripoor-rose.livejournal.com]

I'll go out on a limb here and say I do it. I'm a primarily gen/het reader and I have a few characters in different fandoms that I have an irrational dislike for... and so few people bother to label their fic on LJ any more, if I don't already know the writer's work or had it recced by somebody who mentions the pairing, I skip it.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I'll go out on a limb here and say I do it. I'm a primarily gen/het reader and I have a few characters in different fandoms that I have an irrational dislike for... and so few people bother to label their fic on LJ any more, if I don't already know the writer's work or had it recced by somebody who mentions the pairing, I skip it.

See, your reasoning makes sense to me. But if you're in a fandom where more likely than not the plots are good, the writers are good, and the characters involved are ones you want to see...I don't get it.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with an irrational dislike of some characters. I can't stand Samantha Carter on SG-1. I absolutely love 'Dexter' but I cannot stand his sister. I love Torchwood, but I want to set fire to Gwen every time she steps up on her "I'm a cop with a humanist point of view why are we doing things THIS way?" soapbox. OH MY GOD! BITCH SLAP! Whoops. See, that would be the irrational dislike coming out to play. ;-)

[madripoor-rose.livejournal.com]

Huh. In that situation I don't get it either...unless the reader is under some RL time crunch so they only have a half hour or so for ficreading a day.

(it's really hard to read HP fanfic when you cannot stand Ron Weasley, for my example.)

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Huh. In that situation I don't get it either...unless the reader is under some RL time crunch so they only have a half hour or so for ficreading a day.

See? Stumps the brain, doesn't it? And it wasn't presented in such a way that she didn't have *time* to read more, she just didn't.

(it's really hard to read HP fanfic when you cannot stand Ron Weasley, for my example.)

And that example makes perfect sense, and OMG I just noticed your icon! Aris Boch!

[madripoor-rose.livejournal.com]

Heh. Aris is my favorite stargate character right now. And he's only in six fanfics and the Siren's Song tie-in novel, sigh. Someone not me seriously needs to write Aris vs Vala: Intergalactic Midnight Run.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Aris vs Vala: Intergalactic Midnight Run.

If you're talking about an SG-1 version of the De Niro movie of the same name, you seriously WIN AT LIFE. That's genius. If anyone writes it, please, please let me know.

And actually, Aris and snarky Daniel would be pretty hilarious too. One of the funniest lines in Stargate history:

"But you're a doctor."

"Of archeology."

Oh Daniel, I love you. Michael Shanks needs a new TV gig, stat, before I go into withdrawal.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes! An SG-1 version of the movie, with the bounty hunters and the escaping and recapturing and double-crossing! Perfect for the greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy and the universe's best con artist and thief! But sigh, he's not exactly the most popular one-off character in SG fandom, so it doesn't look likely.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

he's not exactly the most popular one-off character in SG fandom, so it doesn't look likely.

Which is odd, considering the chemistry he had with Daniel. That's usually the kind of thing (in other fandoms, admittedly) that gets a writer's mind cranking!

[topaz119.livejournal.com]

I read all the time, as much as I can. I figure I actually learned how to write from reading fic and hanging out with all the awesome writers out there. And yes, badfic abounds, but even then there's so much to learn (and I don't mean that in a nasty way, like what not to do.) There are stories that I *cringe* at myself for reading, but I'm dying to know what happens next so at the same time, I'm trying to figure out what the emotional hook is, why I can't walk away and maybe how to make that work in not-badfic (at least, I hope so.)

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I read all the time, as much as I can. I figure I actually learned how to write from reading fic and hanging out with all the awesome writers out there.

Me too! I'm a sponge, I'll read great stories, good ones and even just okay ones. I've even read a chapter or two of bad!fic in my time.

There are stories that I *cringe* at myself for reading, but I'm dying to know what happens next so at the same time, I'm trying to figure out what the emotional hook is, why I can't walk away and maybe how to make that work in not-badfic (at least, I hope so.)

See, I like that. Bad!fic, but there's something there that keeps you coming back, and yes, you can learn from that. I've seen a quote somewhere: "A little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika." -Dorothy Parker. LOL! I love that.

One of the TV shows I watch has ONE TRUE PAIRING, and I do mean ONE true pairing -- that I don't read, naturally. To compare: If there are 1000 stories about the OTP, there are maybe 10 of the pairing I like, and of those, maybe five aren't bad. So yeah, I *have* to wade through a little bad fic to find one or two good ones. We're talking *extremely* thin pickings. I don't think I'd have found those few good ones if I'd been waiting for recs!

[topaz119.livejournal.com]

I read off rec pages, too, for sure, because I read in a couple of fandoms that are big enough that I can't keep up and God forbid life should get crazy and I get behind, but I have a couple of odd pairings that I like, too, and so I end up reading almost everything out there for them and, um, yeah. Badfic. And some of it, I click that Back button at the speed of light, but sometimes, I'm just hooked.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I have a couple of odd pairings that I like, too, and so I end up reading almost everything out there for them and, um, yeah. Badfic. And some of it, I click that Back button at the speed of light, but sometimes, I'm just hooked.

I hear ya, sister! There's one on fanfiction.net that I'm reading now, and it's not quite bad!fic but it's not stellar, either, but every day when I get home it's one of the first links I check, looking for an update. Rare pairings, man. You do what you have to for your fix!

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

Were you one of the ones reading the Matthew Time BSB/Nsync drama that kept going on and on and on (and may still be, for all I know)? I don't remember the name of it, just that there was a new chapter like, every week for the longest time, and so many on my flist were reading it even as they hated it *g*

But yeah, good point on the reading-and-learning-how-to-write. I think I've learned a lot from reading and talking about writing to really talented authors. *cough* including present company :) *cough*

[topaz119.livejournal.com]

Not the second, never-ending story (Sucker?) but I was there every Monday for, lord, close to 2 years for Living. I just wrapped up one in SPN that I was rolling my eyes at myself for, but there was much whining in AIM if too long went w/o an update.

*mwhah*

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I was there every Monday for, lord, close to 2 years for Living.

And don't forget the oodles of spin-off stories! The layout of that page made me want to *hurt* somebody, though -- who uses a circular layout for a long-ass serial WITH SEVERAL FRIGGIN' BRANCHES? Madness.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Were you one of the ones reading the Matthew Time BSB/Nsync drama that kept going on and on and on (and may still be, for all I know)? I don't remember the name of it, just that there was a new chapter like, every week for the longest time, and so many on my flist were reading it even as they hated it *g*

ROFL! OH MY GOD, 'Living!' I must say, I love slightly-creepy, hyper-focused, just a little psycho Justin (Cry Me a River, anyone?), especially when he's fixated on JC, so I ate that story up with a big ol' serving spoon. ;-) But yes, the drama! The tears! The unbelievable psychosis and neurosis and boyband smackdowns! That story was like crazy on crack, man. You wouldn't believe how hard I'm laughing as I sit here typing this. THANK YOU FOR THE LAUGHTER.

And don't forget 98 Degrees! I can't remember if it continued long enough for O-Town to get tossed into the mix. Do you remember the big intergroup marriage spree? The memories! Ow, my ribs hurt from the laughing. I loved that story.

But yeah, good point on the reading-and-learning-how-to-write. I think I've learned a lot from reading and talking about writing to really talented authors. *cough* including present company :) *cough*

A virtual cookie for you, sweetness. :-) ::kiss::

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

I may very very occasionally stop reading fic in a fandom WHILE I am writing a fic in that fandom, but it tends to be a very specific case by case basis thing. (If I find that reading while I'm working on something is confusing the story or altering the narrative voice or something, you know? Like I never read Charles Dickens while I'm writing anything, because his excessive wordiness sneaks in. *G*)

But in general, I read nearly everything I can get my hands on, whether or not I am writing.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

But in general, I read nearly everything I can get my hands on, whether or not I am writing.

Yes, I'm the same way! I've had a couple of jobs where I read so much during the day that my brain just couldn't handle any more once I got home. I think that lasted about a year; it was my longest non-reading spell ever, and I worried at the time that I'd never recover my overwhelming love of reading. Hahahaha! Silly me.

I've been reading since I was about three (like a lot of my friends list, I expect!), so the notion of limiting oneself just made my brain seize up for a second. ;-)

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

Absolutely, I read. It's kind of scary, sometimes, how MUCH I read -- but I can't imagine not reading. Yeah, I'm cautious about my reading (because I do *not* like the taste of badfic, thanks *g*), but it's also how I find new, good authors. And new ideas to explore in my own way. And interact with other fans and writers.

I know a few people who don't read fic -- though they write it -- or read very little. I don't get it, either.

[hegemony.livejournal.com]

It is hysterical how much fanfic I read. I, too, have standards, but let's just be serious right now. I'll read anything that seems interesting for at least two paragraphs.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I'll read anything that seems interesting for at least two paragraphs.

I agree. If it looks promising, I'll give it a spin. I accidentally read a Timbertrick this morning from last year's DWNOGA. Eeek! I don't read Timbertrick, so I almost stopped reading, but I was about three-quarters finished and I'd enjoyed it up to that point. I finished reading with my hands over my eyes, while peeking through my fingers. ;-)

[laurabryannan.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those who rarely reads other's fic. In the !ploo fandom, most of it is Fuu-centric het that I can't touch with a ten foot pole. And, when I'm writing, I don't like to sully with my inner dreamspace with other folk's thoughts and imagery. I'm more likely to read fic outside of my own fandom than inside for these reasons.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

And, when I'm writing, I don't like to sully with my inner dreamspace with other folk's thoughts and imagery. I'm more likely to read fic outside of my own fandom than inside for these reasons.

And that makes sense (I don't read Fuu-centric het, either). If the comment had been presented that way, I'd be sitting here thinking, "Okay, that makes sense." ;-)

If I'm reading something that seems to be drifting in a direction I'd planned for my own writing, I'll absolutely avoid it until I'm finished with whatever I'm working on myself, for the same reasons.

[ibythetide.livejournal.com]

I read almost everything, my lj memories are full of fic from multiple fandoms and the quality ranges from okay to wow. I do have my own criteria as to what I can and cannot read. There has to be separated paragraphs, for example, and characterization has to make sense. I still read bad!fic, but that varies too.

she rarely reads other people's fic unless it's recommended

I feel that those kind of comments, and I've seen them in all fandoms, generally denote a disconnect/feeling of being above the average fiction that liters the internet. I don't understand it and it kind of annoys me. A lot.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I feel that those kind of comments, and I've seen them in all fandoms, generally denote a disconnect/feeling of being above the average fiction that liters the internet.

You've said, much more eloquently than I was thinking, just what I was feeling.

[pjordha.livejournal.com]

So...if you write fic, do you read it as well?

I'll add to that question: If you write fic, do you read it as well...and send feedback after reading it?

So many times I've seen people talking about reading so much fic, and yet so many writers get so *little* feedback, so the math does not add up. If there's so much reading and enjoying going on, where's the feedback?

When I read something I like, I send feedback, even if it's only a "great story!", even if it's not entirely true. If I hate something, then I wouldn't send feedback, but nowadays I wouldn't bother finishing something I hated.

Sometimes I think writers (at least in popslash) are the worst for sending feedback. Either that or they only read the "popular" stuff. Readers-only or writers just starting out are much better at sending feedback in my experience.

Look at it this way: When a writer sees comments like "I read everything in XYZ fandom...save the really bad stuff," and that writer has written fic in XYZ fandom and never gotten any kind of feedback from those commenters, then they must only conclude that their fanfic is "the really bad stuff." Which is probably kind of demoralizing, I think.

I really don't get the concept of "badfic," unless it's *purposefully* bad. Otherwise, the author was trying his/her best, and is probably a novice. Well, more of a novice than all the other fanfic writers. *All* fanfic writers are novices, though. Anyone who goes pro probably wouldn't have the time or inclination to write fanfic anymore.

Anyway, I guess it's a sensitive topic. Everyone complains about "badfic" but few people take the time out to actually do anything about it -- send helpful, constructive criticism to the authors so they can actually improve their writing. I dare say the so-called badfic writers just think of themselves as...writers.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

First...I'd like to use this topic in a new post. Do you mind if I snippetize a couple of things you said in your comment? Hmmm. Actually, after reading it again, I may just frame my question before and after, with your comment credited in the middle. Would you mind, or would you rather post as a topic in your own journal?

Actually, looking at it again I'm thinking I might split it into two topics, one on feedback and maybe one on badfic. Anyway, let me know. If you'd rather I didn't, I'll just post the topic without using your comment, though you've got some thought-provoking stuff there. :-)

[pjordha.livejournal.com]

Oh, please, be my guest! Post/cite/snippetize away!

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Oh, please, be my guest! Post/cite/snippetize away!

I'm so pleased! I hoped you'd say yes. :-) You're right, it's a very touchy subject; it'll be interesting to see what kind of responses I get.

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

I read reams more than I write. In fact, the two things that force me to writing are *not* reading, or reading something sublime.
And chocolate shakes combined with a really slashy tv plot. Three things. The three things that make me write are...

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

the two things that force me to writing are *not* reading, or reading something sublime.

Yes! One of those pieces that makes you feel all...I can't even describe it, and the first thing you want to do is get your own thoughts out there.

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

You've got it in one. You feel indescribable, and you just want to jump in with a full heart. I love that feeling so much!!! I can never have genuine judgement about a story that makes me feel that way, I'm too giddy. I'm always convinced it's a masterpiece.
The Spike's Angel/Xander story made me feel that way, and some of Rachel Anton's Scully/Krycek stories, and Sarah Ellen Parsons, and oh, Jane St. Clair. Te. Shalott. Anna S. Amber who-is-no-more because she's published did, and gah, who's that one relentlessly excellent popslash writer? Rhys, that's it. Synchronik's bus stuff.
::happy place::

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

a full heart

Yes, yes, yes. A full heart, yes. Wow...I'm getting all giddy thinking about how it makes me feel! There've been a few stories I've read that affected me that way, like a written kick to the head. You're sitting there looking at the screen going, eeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Love that feeling, yes.

[gabilady.livejournal.com]

I read "Living", but only pushed myself through about 8 chapters of "Sucker" before I burned it from my brain.

On the feedback front, I'm lazy. I will comment if I'm reading it on LJ, cause it's easy. I never go to the trouble of sending an email. One reason I don't send feedback is way back in the day, a really "popular" author in the SDB fandom posted about hating stupid feedback. Then others joined in saying they did not want to recieve "great story" feedback. I am lazy and "great story" is about the extent of my norm fb. I'm also a fan of just saying "thanks for posting."

oh well, I'm done.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

One reason I don't send feedback is way back in the day, a really "popular" author in the SDB fandom posted about hating stupid feedback. Then others joined in saying they did not want to recieve "great story" feedback.

Yes! A friend of mine, pre-popslash, had the same opinion, but I *thought* I remembered something like this happening in popslash. Being on the eye-rolling fringes of the cool crowd, I didn't remember the details. ;-) Thanks for giving my brain a nudge.

[scot-ty.livejournal.com]

I used to read everything new that came out, but that was when fandom was at its peak. I always left feedback and tried to include something specific that I liked, a hilighted passage or something.

I think reading and writing go hand-in-hand. If I'm reading a lot, I'm usually writing a lot too.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I think reading and writing go hand-in-hand. If I'm reading a lot, I'm usually writing a lot too.

Yep, there are times when writing that I'll go on these reading binges, when I just want to flood my brain with words.

[copracat]

Nah, there are just some people in fandom because they are writers only, not fans. They don't give a fuck about any interaction except they write and get feedback/ego boo/attention/whatever. They can generally be recognised by the regularity with which they use the term 'my readers'. Even if I like their work I would never, ever give them any feedback because I am a selfish fan who demands at least the intention of interaction, whether you are a shy lurker or a five-posts/fifty-emails-a-day ultra-fan. I want to know that you are in this with me, this obsession, this love, this delight in the process of media fandom. Anyone who sees me and other media fans as a readership only? Yeah, whatever, no.

(Note here that they key for me is that the poster was a writer.)

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Wow, sorry I'm so late with a response, but I thought I'd responded! My brain, she hates me.

Nah, there are just some people in fandom because they are writers only, not fans. They don't give a fuck about any interaction except they write and get feedback/ego boo/attention/whatever. [snip] I want to know that you are in this with me, this obsession, this love, this delight in the process of media fandom. Anyone who sees me and other media fans as a readership only? Yeah, whatever, no.

EXACTLY, YES. We're all fans, so let's interact, dammit! I want someone to squee *with*, not *at*. If I wanted a one-way street kind of relationship with a writer, I'd email friggin' Stephen King or something.

And I agree with being selfish, because I haven't given her a word of feedback since reading that post.

[copracat]

Wow, sorry I'm so late with a response, but I thought I'd responded! My brain, she hates me.

Oh, my house is way too made of glass in this respect!