Reading, writing...and feedback.

[foxmonkey]

A couple of days ago I asked: If you write fic, do you read it as well? Not as strange a question as it sounds, but you'll have to go to the post to see why.

pjordha had an interesting response, and has graciously allowed me to use it for this post. Her comment:

I'll add to that question: If you write fic, do you read it as well...and send feedback after reading it?

So many times I've seen people talking about reading so much fic, and yet so many writers get so *little* feedback, so the math does not add up. If there's so much reading and enjoying going on, where's the feedback?

When I read something I like, I send feedback, even if it's only a "great story!", even if it's not entirely true. If I hate something, then I wouldn't send feedback, but nowadays I wouldn't bother finishing something I hated.

Sometimes I think writers (at least in popslash) are the worst for sending feedback. Either that or they only read the "popular" stuff. Readers-only or writers just starting out are much better at sending feedback in my experience.

Look at it this way: When a writer sees comments like "I read everything in XYZ fandom...save the really bad stuff," and that writer has written fic in XYZ fandom and never gotten any kind of feedback from those commenters, then they must only conclude that their fanfic is "the really bad stuff." Which is probably kind of demoralizing, I think.

The short answer: I'll be the first to admit that I don't send nearly enough feedback, but I'm making an effort now to let authors know that I love and/or like what they've done.

And just to play devil's advocate here, I've known writers who aren't enthusiastic about "great story!" responses. Since I don't know if that means they'd rather have had no feedback at all, I won't elaborate. Just tossing that out there as the flipside of the coin. ;-)

Thoughts?

By the way, pjordha's original comment is screened to encourage responses here. :-)

Comments

[powrhug.livejournal.com]

I actually wrote feedback for every piece of fic I read back when I was writing it. I felt it was only fair.

Now that I don't write it, I tend to not read it, and if I do read, I try to feedback, but don't always get it done.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I actually wrote feedback for every piece of fic I read back when I was writing it. I felt it was only fair.

Now that I don't write it, I tend to not read it, and if I do read, I try to feedback, but don't always get it done.

The first part of your reply - admirable! I think I tried doing that when I was a wee newbie to fandom *aaaaaaaaages* ago.

The second part of your reply - I'm making an effort now to send feedback more often, especially when something moves me.

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

I post feedback whenever I feel the urge; it's a pleasure, not a duty. I read much more than I comment, usually, and this is good! When I comment, I like to say only things I mean, so you can see why it's better if I don't comment to every story. I've been chewing on my nails not to correct the grammar of several recently, and I'm proud that I held my tongue. It would feel dishonest to say "great story" when I'm thinking "this would be so good if you'd let me fix your horrendous tense problem for you," "no Texan/Californian male would use the word 'fancy' unless he was mocking something" or "I enjoyed the plot, but it's 'was standing', never *ever* 'was stood' and if you won't grasp this I may cry," so I just sail on.

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's a lot of this going on for me as well.

Plus, I don't like leaving lame two-word feedback. So even if I like something, I probably won't leave a lot of feedback unless I actually have something to say about it beyond "yay story!".

(The exception to short feedback is in the extremely rare occasions when I am moved to rec something. Generally, I figure most of my flist is reading the same comms I am, so I typically only rec stuff that's older or not in the usual comms, so I think people are likely to miss it. Then I might drop a comment along the lines of "I liked this enough I recced it in my lj." which isn't saying much constructive about the story, but I figure that's nice to hear anyway. :) )

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

It's funny, because I love any comments on my own stuff, even 2-word squees or suggestions or whatever, but I like to leave a little more on other people's journals. In my head, good writers have high expectations for social interactions. (Though published writers often do things to wreck my fantasy world, alas.)

Nothing is a higher compliment than a rec, though, besides maybe a nomination or (in a creepy way), plagiarism. Oh, unless it's a "this story mostly sucks but it has good sex bits" kind of rec. Heh.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Nothing is a higher compliment than a rec

Yep, that's what I said above. I'm sure there are writers who'd prefer a rec to a paragraph of squee!

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

But the yummiest of all is a paragraph of squee *in* a rec.*g*

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

But the yummiest of all is a paragraph of squee *in* a rec.*g*

LOL! I started to write something along those same lines. :-)

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

I rarely read published stuff anymore because good fanfic has totally skewed my standards.

I never give recs like that. I don't have a rec list or anything that might make me feel like I needed to collect recs, so if I rec something, it's because I really think it's worth people paying attention to, for whatever reason. :)

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Then I might drop a comment along the lines of "I liked this enough I recced it in my lj." which isn't saying much constructive about the story, but I figure that's nice to hear anyway. :)

I daresay quite a few people would be as pleased with a one- or two-liner pimping their fic as they would a paragraph on why someone liked it. I love showing up on rec lists -- it hardly ever happens, so it's always quite a boost to see it!

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the act of reccing says a lot about what someone thinks of your story.

Though as I said in my other comment, I don't actually do a rec list regularly or anything like that, so it's only stuff that REALLY REALLY stands out to me that I rec. (I think in part because I get a lot of links FROM rec lists. :) )

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

When I comment, I like to say only things I mean, so you can see why it's better if I don't comment to every story.

Same here. I can't send feedback for something that I'm not crazy about.

"I enjoyed the plot, but it's 'was standing', never *ever* 'was stood' and if you won't grasp this I may cry," so I just sail on.

I've seen this, people offering extensive crit in comments, and I'm thinking, yikes! Email seems like the more polite way to offer such comments, but maybe I'm just behind the times. ;-)

Granted, a beta beforehand is the sensible thing to do, so bad on ya for not doing that in the first place, but I can't imagine clicking a comment link thinking it's going to be feedback and finding a laundry list of your mistakes hanging out there. ::shudders::

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

The only time I feel okay offering critical comments in feedback is when it's something which seems unexpected for the author- misuse of one word when everything else is good, or something that could easily be either a typo or an overexcited spellchecker, that kind of thing. (Or a misspelling of a name which isn't spelled in the standard way- "I loved this. It was a really interesting premise and the flow pulled me right in. (Btw, in the script/credits/on the offical webpage, Michael is spelled Mychael. I don't know if you want to change that, but I thought I'd mention it because canon uses a weird spelling.)")

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

The only time I feel okay offering critical comments in feedback is when it's something which seems unexpected for the author- misuse of one word when everything else is good, or something that could easily be either a typo or an overexcited spellchecker, that kind of thing.

I agree. "Feedback" that's mostly a list of missed words, shift changes, etc.? Put it in email. Some would say that if you put something out without checking it first, you deserve to have your head served to you on a platter. I'd rather be polite than righteous. ;-)

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

missed words, shift changes, etc.?

Tense shifts. ::headdesk::

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

See? I'm being so good, not doing that. I own my grammar issues!
But I do like to comment on something that moves me. Usually I share the sort of thing I'd like to know; how a story made the reader feel, what about it made them think, what they thought I was saying between the lines. In some ways, there's never any right answer about the meaning of a work, but it's cool to find out what you've communicated, ideas or emotions.
I wish I had a magic 8-ball that would tell me if the writer would want to hear my thoughts or not. But I just guess they probably do and type, which. Gah, feels so vulnerable when you really loved something, y'know?

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

Gah, feels so vulnerable when you really loved something, y'know?

Yes. I've never, ever been good at critical analysis. I can tell you what did or didn't work for me, what I loved or hated, but please, don't ask me about how the cigar on the fourth page foreshadowed the recurring themes of friggin' WHATEVER that appear in chapters 24-27. Aiiiii!

My professors wanted to kill me. ;-) I'd turn in these perfectly succint, to-the-point paragraphs when I was supposed to write two-three pages of crit because OH MY GOD, kill me now. It's like pulling teeth or fingernails. I can swoon all day and quote the stuff I like, but paragraphs on sentence structure and word choices? I mean, I can do it but there aren't any guarantees that it'll make sense. ;-)

I think that's partly why I used to feel so awkward leaving feedback sometimes, because I'd think that certain individuals *cough*BNFs*cough* were used to headier stuff, and would most likely think my fannish ramblings sound pretty stupid; my lines of squee looked pretty stupid in comparison with more structured comments. It can be intimidating!

Now I'm over it. I write from the heart, write about what I loved, what worked for me, and I'm fine with it. I've become comfortable with my crit envy, and own my issues proudly!

Wow. Rambly. ;-)

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

Yes, I send feedback. I wish I could say I send it 100% of the time, but I can't. I come pretty damn close, though, I think--probably 80% of the time. I try to say something specific about the story, something that grabbed me, pulled me in, hooked me, whatever. Sometimes it's a very simple "God, I loved this!" or along those lines--but yes. I do.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I try to say something specific about the story, something that grabbed me, pulled me in, hooked me, whatever. Sometimes it's a very simple "God, I loved this!" or along those lines--but yes. I do.

I do the same, a line or a few lines that really grabbed me, or a comment about the dialogue if it was especially good...whatever moved me to send feedback in the first place!

[jewelianna.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly awful about feedback, I'll admit. I'm much more comfortable sending it if I know the author. I'm particularly bad about sending it for older stories. I don't know why, but I am always nervous about sending feedback for stories that are a couple of years old.

My feedback is lame though- I can never think of more to say that "I liked that." I feel bad posting that when other comments in LJ-posted-fic have very specific things to say.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I'm particularly bad about sending it for older stories. I don't know why, but I am always nervous about sending feedback for stories that are a couple of years old.

Dude! You hijacked my next post! LOL! I didn't intend to reply to anyone tonight, I'll wait til tomorrow, but I couldn't believe you'd written that. That was going to be my next question. :-) I may screen your comment until I respond tomorrow, in case people get distracted. ;-)

Thanks for responding, and stop reading my mind. ;-)

[brighton-girl.livejournal.com]

I don't write. But I read everything. And yes, I totally provide feedback, even to the not great stuff. Because I think it's important to provide encouragement and constructive criticism to keep the popslash fandom writing going on.

I will say flat out, I do not expect an author to reply to my feedback. It's nice when they do, but I never, ever expect it.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I will say flat out, I do not expect an author to reply to my feedback. It's nice when they do, but I never, ever expect it.

You're one of maybe two people I've heard say that! I always tried to send thanks for all feedback I received. Every now and then something slips by me. I hate when things slip through and I see comments ages later and I haven't sent thanks. :-(

[mirroredimage.livejournal.com]

I don't read as much as I used to... I read a lot more when I was writing and since I don't anymore, it's hard for me to red it. But occasionally I still do and when I did, I tried to write feedback, but I didn't always and here's why:

I am not a fan of "great job" in writing feedback. I am one of those people who likes to write full e-mails about a story, even if it's just a paragraph about why I liked something. I feel that by writing a mere "good job" or "i liked it" that there's nothing there to help an author understand why it's liked or disliked. I once wrote an email to an author (for the JuC Swap nonetheless) that explained why I loved reading her story because I had been so turned off to any story that had sex in it for so long, but she did it in such a way that the sex barely registered as well, sex. It was a paragraph or two about it.

I just always feel like the one or two word feedback emails aren't real or aren't sincere. I know that's not how it is for everyone, but that's how it is for me, so I don't like sending those types.

And as you've seen here in this incredibly long comment, I like explaining.

[foxmonkey.livejournal.com]

I am one of those people who likes to write full e-mails about a story, even if it's just a paragraph about why I liked something. I feel that by writing a mere "good job" or "i liked it" that there's nothing there to help an author understand why it's liked or disliked.

I knew someone like that back in the day. She wrote the most *amazing* feedback, or Letters of Comment, as she called them. One of her LoCs was worth like, twenty regular pieces of feedback! She really took the time to analyze the fic; feedback like that could make your whole day.

It's nice to know that someone else does this as well. :-)